Compatibility with 3D mice, 3DConnexion devices?

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nawoa	Compatibility with 3D mice, 3DConnexion devices?	Lead	[-]
(06/26/09 09:01:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I recently bought a 3D mouse and I've found it to be incredibly useful in programs like 3D Studio Max and Photoshop. It dramatically reduces the amount of time you spend fiddling around with things trying to find the right angle. As a long-time Wings user and advocate, I was surprised to find that Wings doesn't support 3D mice. Maybe this is due to the perception that they're a niche device that nobody can afford? I was under that impression until one of my coworkers showed me his new 3DConnexion SpaceNavigator, which sell for about $80, depending on where you look. Is there any chance of seeing compatibility with these devices in the future? I think 3DConnexion has a freely-available SDK. Thanks Last Edited By: nawoa 06/26/09 09:04:39. Edited 1 time.
Ran13		#1	[-]
(06/28/09 05:20:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	IIRC, mouse support in Wings is provided by the SDL/ESDL wrapper, not wings itself. The folks who create this library apparently believe that a Wacom is a "niche device", so what do think the chances of 3DConnexion support?
nawoa		#2	[-]
(06/28/09 10:29:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Frak! I just typed a reply and then it asked me to login and now my original reply is gone... Well it went like this. The Wacom really is kinda a niche device, it's almost exclusively used for art purposes. More importantly it's also obscenely expensive at any size. I have one and I love it, btw. On the other hand, a SpaceNavigator is only $80 and can be used for lots of programs, even mainstream stuff like Google Earth. Yeah I'm just kidding myself, I know. Maybe I'll give Blender a try, I heard it works with 3dconnexion devices.
tikibob		#3	[-]
(06/29/09 23:00:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Can you explain specifically why it requires 'special' support? I mean, a mouse is a mouse. It shouldn't matter how many 'fancy' features it has, the OS will still treat the same as any other mouse, left/right button clicks, etc... IMHO, Wings shouldn't have to do anything special.
Ran13		#4	[-]
(06/30/09 04:42:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, these devices will behave as "mice", but neither are "mice", and are not supposed to behave as such. All s/w must provide i/o support to some extent. The OS is only part of the equation. This is also the reason why devices with extended features require drivers. The OS only really "knows" 2 & 3-button mice. My mouse has several buttons. In addition to the pen input (which, BTW is radically different than a mouse...pen position is normally absolute in screen space, whereas mouse position is relative in screen space...right?... pick a mouse up and move it, and the cursor does not move, put the pen down at any place of screen/tablet and that's where on the screen the cursor appears... see the BIG difference?), my tablet has several buttons and a touch/slide pad. If I put my tablet in "mouse mode", it works just fine in Wings, but it does not behave like a tablet... it behaves like a mouse (relative screen space, no pressure sensitivity, etc.) And well... it's better to just use a mouse for that. The 3Dconnexion device has several more buttons than what the OS sees as a mouse as well. Wings uses the SDL library to preform input interface primarily because it is multi-platform allowing wings to work on Win, MacOSX, & Linux (and it allows the dev's to focus on building a modeler ). SDL offers no direct support for standard tablet input. Support for tablet input, as I've tried to point out, is different from standard mouse input. This support is due to be added to SDL in version1.3. Read more here: http://www.libsdl.org/ However, I have heard that there may be a switch to wxWidgets at some point in the future, but I don't know if that will cure problems with tablets (or other "niche device" input methods ). And to the OP, you do realize that you can get a small Wacom Bamboo (4x5, IIRC) tablet for < $70 at Buy.com? http://www.buy.com/prod/w...q/loc/101/205705267.html And considering one of the main purposes of Wings is to create digital art, I'd be willing to bet that there are more than a few Wacom users on this forum. Last Edited By: Ran13 06/30/09 04:52:49. Edited 2 times.
puzzledpaul		#5	[-]
(06/30/09 05:43:45) Registered Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	<< I'd be willing to bet that there are more than a few Wacom users on this forum >> One here, for a start pp
dgud		#6	[-]
(06/30/09 07:01:38) Wings Magician Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actually tablet support in wxWidgets is even worse than in SDL .. sigh ..
Ran13		#7	[-]
(06/30/09 07:19:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	bummer... with virtually all the commands available in tweak mode now, it makes modeling w/ a tablet much more attractive.
dgud		#8	[-]
(06/30/09 12:12:05) Wings Magician Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think it will work as good as it does today in mouse mode (or whatever it's called I don't own one), but coming SDL will have tablet support and wxwidgets don't ...
nawoa		#9	[-]
(07/01/09 08:01:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah I'd forgotten about the Bamboo, but still, it's not really a full-fledged tablet. It doesn't have the same resolution of pressure support, for one. All 3DConnexion devices have the same level of control. But it's semantics really... As another user stated, a SpaceNavigator is a completely different animal from a mouse. Rather than just moving in X and Y space (left, right, up, down... wait, we're in a modeling forum, I think that's understood ^^), a SpaceNavigator (and similar devices) don't actually move around on your desk at all. Picture a bowl with a ball in it, floating in water, and that is (very vaguely) the way a SpaceNavigator works. You grab the ball, and you can not only move it in X and Y like a mouse, but you can also push it down and lift it up, as well as twist it right and left and turn it in X and Y. Hard to explain. Ok, using a more readily-understood example, it's like a wii remote but without the IR tracking, and a lot more precise (more like with motionplus). There are probably youtube videos if I'm still not making it clear. If you understand what I mean, you can see why it's perfectly-suited to adjusting the viewport position for 3D modeling. You can accomplish all the same things using a mouse and keyboard, but you can do it much more quickly and precisely using a SpaceNavigator.
Ran13		#10	[-]
(07/01/09 10:20:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah I'd forgotten about the Bamboo, but still, it's not really a full-fledged tablet. It has more levels of pressure sensitivity than the Wacom ArtPad II I used for over 7 years prior to getting my current Intuos3.
dgud		#11	[-]
(07/01/09 11:50:18) Wings Magician Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hmm I reread the first post: "I think 3DConnexion has a freely-available SDK" If a SDK is available it's always possible to use that directly via a driver without using SDL or wxWidgets, it requires a lot more coding, though, but the sooner you start the faster it will be done.
nawoa		#12	[-]
(07/01/09 12:17:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tell that to a programmer :P No really, RIGHT NOW
nawoa		#13	[-]
(07/18/09 06:01:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ok, a quick check of the erlang site does not yield a development forum. Google mostly gives me links to Wings 3D ^^ Does anyone know where I can find an active Erlang development forum? I can be a very persuasive texter
TulipVorlax		#14	[-]
(07/18/09 22:43:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	See : http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Erlang/ HEy ! There's a site about Erlang in french :-)
nawoa		#15	[-]
(07/19/09 07:24:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for the link I will see what I can do to drum up support. 3DConnexion guy saying the only thing that's needed is wings (erlang guys, w/e) to implement the code: http://www.3dconnexion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1210&highlight=wings free SDK: http://www.3dconnexion.com/support/sdk.php From what I can see there's no fee of any kind - they want very much for more software support but it's not possible to write a "generic" driver.
plec		#16	[-]
(08/13/09 22:39:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	puzzledpaul wrote: << I'd be willing to bet that there are more than a few Wacom users on this forum >> One here, for a start pp You can always count me as an ardent fellow tablet user.
pauljs75		#17	[-]
(08/21/09 11:03:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If they ever support this, I think next should be support for less expensive and much more common analog game joysticks (like my Logitech Attack3). No reason why it shouldn't work great for 3D space navigation too. I could see a fire button or two affecting the method in which space is navigated, such as pan or dolly mode. The throttle would act as a multiplier for how fast things move when the stick is taken to a full stop, so you could blitz vast distances or nudge around with precision. Something like that would be great when working with very large models or scenery. Anyone who knows what "Slew mode" is in a flight sim would have a pretty good appreciation of the concept.
Ran13		#18	[-]
(08/21/09 12:01:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Man, if ANY of this gets implemented before tablet support, I'm gonna hunt somebody down and wear out my knees kickin' their behind! Or at least poke 'em in the eye with my tablet stylus.
TulipVorlax		#19	[-]
(08/21/09 19:27:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You can add two Wacom users here. We each have a Bamboo Fun today but at first my friend had an Intuos 2 wich broke and since i knew he was hardly ever using the tilt caption, i told him to buy a Bamboo like me since they were so cheap and the Intuos is hard to find around here. Before i got a Bamboo i had a non-Wacom tablet wich was not to good and it's stylet need a AAAA (yes 4 A) battery wich is a bit rare around here.
TulipVorlax		#20	[-]
(08/24/09 16:40:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Might be a bit offtopic but today my friend has drop his Bamboo stylet into water and even many hours later, it still doesn't work. We'll have to get another stylet on Wacom's site.

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